Now general meeting of owners premises in apartment building can be carried out in person by correspondence according to Federal Law No. 176 of June 29, 2015. In fact, in the past, meetings of residents were often held in exactly this form, since rarely did anyone manage to gather all the owners of premises in an apartment building in person in one place and at the same time.
Therefore, they acted in this way: first they held an in-person vote, and then, due to the lack of a quorum, the previous time a form of absentee voting was carried out on the same agenda. In other words, the general meeting of apartment building residents was secretly held in the form of in-person and absentee voting. However, this form has its own distinctive features from successively held in-person and absentee forms of meetings of residents.
Differences
The key difference between the in-person and absentee form of voting, first in person and then in absentia, is the integrity of the action. Thus, these are not 2 different meetings held sequentially for reasons of the need to obtain a quorum, but a single event consisting of 2 parts. In addition, the law does not prohibit holding a meeting in person and in absentia simultaneously according to 2 schemes, that is, it can be held not in stages, but in parallel in the form of the direct presence of residents and in the form of their absentee voting. In this case, they will be taken into account, counted together and issued in 1 OSS protocol all, without exception, in-person and absentee votes of owners. And with other forms of holding a general meeting, 2 separate ones will be held.
Despite the fact that in-person and absentee voting can be carried out simultaneously in the form of an in-person and absentee meeting, it is advisable to determine the end time for accepting absentee decisions of owners. IN in this case the meeting can be managed and timely monitored whether a quorum of those present in person has been reached, and the results of absentee voting can be accepted along with each decision received from the owners.
A pleasant point is the fact that it does not matter whether a quorum was reached or not during the in-person part of the voting, since all in-person and absentee votes are summed up. And only after both forms of the meeting are completed, votes are counted to determine the presence of a quorum.
The in-person and absentee form of the meeting is especially convenient when considering issues on which at least 2/3 of the votes of residents are required to make a decision (Parts 1-3.1, 3.2-3.5 of Article 44 of the Housing Code of the Russian Federation). When a meeting on such issues is held first in person and then in absentia, it is possible that a quorum of more than 50%, but less than 2/3 of the votes, is gathered at the meeting in person. In this case, the meeting in person is considered to have taken place if a quorum is present, but absentee voting cannot be held.
Thus, decisions for which at least 2/3 of the votes of residents must be cast cannot be made and the meeting will have to be held again. In such a situation, the in-person/absentee form of the meeting has a significant advantage and is the best option for making decisions by the residents of the house.
The decisions of the general meeting of owners of premises in apartment buildings, as in previous cases, are documented in the minutes of the general public meeting. The decisions and minutes of the OCC are official documents, so their falsification may result in criminal liability(more on this in another
According to ,
General meeting of owners of premises in apartment buildings , according to Part 1 of Article 44 of the Housing Code of the Russian Federation , recognized by the building management body. The general meeting is held in order to Management Company together with homeowners, I was able to discuss a number of topical issues and problems on the agenda by voting and making decisions.
The general meeting of homeowners can be held in three forms (Article 44.1 of the Housing Code of the Russian Federation):
· absentee voting - through questionnaire, if the meeting in person did not take place due to lack of quorum (Part 1 of Article 47, Article 47.1 of the Housing Code of the Russian Federation).
· in-person and absentee voting - using the GIS housing and communal services system (Part 3 of Article 47 of the RF Housing Code). The decision on the use of GIS housing and communal services during the general public assessment in the form of absentee voting is made by the general meeting of premises owners (clause 3.2, part 2, article 44, part 1, article 47.1 of the Housing Code of the Russian Federation).
When and why is it necessary to conduct an OSS in the form in-person and absentee voting of owners? After all, for this there are separate forms of in-person and absentee voting. The thing is that both of these forms do not always bring results, since often there is simply not a quorum to make important decisions at the meeting. general meeting homeowners.
In-person and absentee voting combines both forms of conducting OSS and allows you to discuss issues on the agenda in person and make decisions on them, as well as transfer decisions of homeowners by absentee voting to fixed time at the address specified in the event notice (Part 3 of Article 47 of the RF Housing Code). Read more about this in our article.
This is convenient because if during the absentee voting there was not a quorum to make decisions on the issues on the agenda, then it can be achieved through absentee voting. Particularly relevant In-person and absentee form of voting for homeowners when considering agenda items that require decisions to be made by 2/3 of the votes of the owners of premises in the apartment building (Parts 1-3.1, 3.2-3.5 Article 44 of the RF Housing Code). For example, these could be financial issues related to lending or the need to revise tariffs or carry out landscaping of the local area.
Step-by-step instructions for conducting OSS in
Step 1. Announcement
Any OSS begins with the announcement of the event and the convening of homeowners for it. We also remind you that it is mandatory to carry out annual general meeting(Part 1 of Article 45 of the Housing Code of the Russian Federation). In addition, on the initiative of the management company, homeowners or initiative group Extraordinary OCCs can meet in the MKD (parts 2, 6 and 7 of Art. 45, and Clause 8 of Article 148 of the Housing Code of the Russian Federation).
Step 2. Preparation
Formulate the agenda of the OSS, decide on the form of voting (in-person, absentee or in-person). At in-person and absentee voting the agenda should be the same for both forms.
To conduct in-person or absentee voting, select the time and place for the OSS to discuss issues. Prepare an information message about holding a general meeting of homeowners (Order of the Ministry of Construction No. 411/pr dated July 31, 2014). You will also need forms OSS protocol, register of owners of premises in this apartment building, forms of decisions on agenda items.
Step 3. Notification
You must notify each owner of the premises in this apartment building by means of a written notice against signature, sent to his address registered letter or posted on an information board in a place accessible to all residents 10 days before the date of the general meeting (Part 4 of Article 45 of the Housing Code of the Russian Federation).
The notice of the general meeting must contain complete and reliable information about the initiator of the general meeting, the form of voting, the date, place and time of the event. The notice must also contain mandatory agenda items, the procedure for participants to familiarize themselves with the information and materials that will be presented at the event. When holding a general meeting in form of in-person and absentee voting In addition, the message will need to indicate the end date for accepting decisions of homeowners, the place or address where these decisions should be sent (Part 5 of Article 45 of the RF Housing Code). 1
When conducting the OSS in the form of in-person and absentee voting using GIS housing and communal services In the notification, you must additionally indicate information about the OSS administrator (name - for legal entities and full name - for individuals). In addition, the place and actual address, the date and time of the beginning and end of voting, the procedure and procedure for the reception by the administrator of the OSS of written decisions of homeowners on agenda items are indicated. (Part 4 of Article 47.1 of the Housing Code of the Russian Federation).
In-person and absentee voting for homeowners involves both in-person and absentee voting, therefore, in the message about the general meeting, it is necessary to indicate 2 dates: the start of in-person voting and the time before which decisions are made by owners voting in absentia. Both dates are set 10 days before homeowners receive notice.
The sequence of the in-person and absentee parts of in-person voting is not defined, so both forms can be carried out either sequentially or in parallel, or even one form can be “inside” the other. The latter option is possible if the start date for accepting absentee decisions is set earlier than the time of the in-person meeting, and the end date for accepting absentee decisions is, accordingly, later than the date of the in-person meeting.
Step 4. Carrying out
When holding a general meeting in form of in-person and absentee voting, participants must be given the opportunity to discuss issues on the agenda and submit voting forms within the prescribed period to the place or address specified in the notice (Part 3 of Article 47 of the RF Housing Code).
Voting using the GIS Housing and Communal Services is carried out by the owners of premises in the apartment building in person, indicating the decision on each issue on the agenda in electronic form. It is also possible to transfer the decision to the OSS administrator in writing before the end date and time of voting (Part 6, Article 47.1 of the Housing Code of the Russian Federation).
Decisions of the general public meeting on agenda items are made by a majority vote of the total number of homeowners participating in the meeting (Part 1 of Article 46 of the Housing Code of the Russian Federation). The exception is decisions that are made by a majority of at least 2/3 of the votes of the total number of owners of premises in the apartment building (paragraphs 1 - 3.1, part 2, article 44, part 1, article 46 of the Housing Code of the Russian Federation).
Step 5. Registration of voting results
The decision of the OSS is formalized in a protocol (Part 1 of Article 46 of the Housing Code of the Russian Federation). In the case of an in-person and absentee meeting, the in-person and absentee votes are summed up, so the OSS protocol is drawn up alone. Solutions and OSS protocol are official documents certifying facts entailing legal consequences for owners of premises in apartment buildings in the form of maintenance obligations common property in this house. All decisions and minutes of the general meeting must be posted in the GIS Housing and Communal Services by the initiator of the meeting.
The minutes of the general meeting must contain the date, place and time of the general meeting and summing up the results, the agenda, the presence of a quorum, the number of votes “For”, “Against” and “Abstained” on each issue. There is no approved protocol form yet, but there is draft Order of the Ministry of Construction on registration of OSS protocols .
The minutes of the general meeting are signed by the chairman and secretary of the general meeting, as well as members of the counting commission (clause 22 section 6, clause 15 section 7 of the Methodological Recommendations , approved by Order of the Ministry of Construction of the Russian Federation No. 411/pr dated July 31, 2014).
Regardless of the form of voting, the decision of homeowners on the voting agenda must indicate (part 5.1 of article 48 of the Housing Code of the Russian Federation):
· information about the voting participant;
· information about the document confirming the ownership of the apartment/room in the apartment building of the voting participant;
· decisions on each item on the agenda: “for”, “against” and “abstained”.
The initiator of the general meeting must provide copies of the decisions and minutes of the general meeting to his management company within 10 days after the event (Part 1 of Article 46 of the Housing Code of the Russian Federation).
Decisions of the general meeting of owners of premises in apartment buildings, adopted based on voting results using the GIS Housing and Communal Services, are automatically generated in the OSS protocol and posted in the system within one hour after the end of voting (Part 11, Article 47.1 of the Housing Code of the Russian Federation).
Management Company within 5 days from the date of receipt of copies of decisions and protocols, the OSS must, in the manner prescribed by law, send them to the State Housing Property Department for storage for 3 years, including using the GIS Housing and Communal Services (Part 1.1 of Article 46 of the Housing Code of the Russian Federation). That is, whether you hold an in-person meeting of homeowners the old fashioned way or using the system, in any case, copies of the decisions and minutes of the OSS will be sent to the State Housing Property Inspectorate. Only in the first case these will be paper copies, and in the second, electronic versions.
Step 6. Informing about voting results and decisions made
The voting results and decisions made at the OSS are brought to the attention of all homeowners by the initiator of the meeting within 10 days from the date of their adoption. Information is posted in a building accessible to all residents. (Part 3 of Article 46 of the RF Housing Code). For example, on an information board or on the front door at the entrance.
Step 7. Posting voting results
Decisions of the owners of premises in apartment buildings, adopted during absentee voting at a general meeting, must be published no later than 10 days from the date of the general meeting in four sources of information disclosure approved by law:
· on the website Reform LCD
· on the UK website
· on the GIS Housing and Communal Services website
· on information stands in the management company office
Owners of premises have an obligation to regularly hold meetings regarding their housing. Unless another provision is fixed by the rules of the owners of the premises, the meeting is held in the second quarter of the year following the reporting year.
Absentee voting of owners
As a rule, a survey is conducted at a general meeting of apartment owners. And then a vote of residents follows. In particular, absentee voting is scheduled. In this case, the decision made by the owners is transmitted in writing to the place that is recorded in the notice of the general meeting of residents.
It is worth noting that the housing codification act does not regulate which general meeting (for example, regular or extraordinary) can be held according to a procedure such as absentee voting of residents. That is why it can be argued that absentee voting can be used for any type of this event.
In order to conduct a survey using absentee voting, you need to send a message to the apartment resident about planning such an event. The form of such news is written. When writing such a message, the appropriate form is used. The message form requires the following information:
- information about the person on whose initiative it is planned to hold a meeting of apartment residents;
- the form of holding such an event (that is, absentee voting by apartment owners);
- the date the decisions were made, as well as the address where they need to be sent;
- agenda.
In-person and absentee voting of owners
In some cases, a survey form such as in-person and absentee voting among apartment residents. An in-person meeting of apartment owners is one event consisting of two parts (first in-person, then in absentia).
Moreover, the form of such a procedure can be both in-person and in absentia (that is, the decision-making processes can proceed in parallel).
After a survey has been conducted under this procedure, a protocol is also drawn up. It is worth noting that the protocol is an important document that has legal significance.
The in-person event for apartment owners has certain features. So, the message should indicate two dates at once. One is the date during which the in-person poll is conducted, the other is the date before which decisions are made by apartment owners who vote in absentia.
Please note that these dates must be at least ten days from the time residents received notices. As for the sequence of the two parts, it has not been fixed by the legislator. This means that such parts can be carried out sequentially (for example, voting is carried out first in person, and then in absentia) or simultaneously (that is, both forms are carried out in parallel). However, practice shows that it is more expedient to set the time for completing the survey of people who vote by absentee form after voting in person has been carried out.
Voting procedure
Both in-person and absentee meetings are valid under the same conditions. Such a survey, as well as a protocol on the decision, must include a certain number of participants.
The event will be eligible if it was attended by apartment owners or their representatives who have more than 50 percent of the votes of the total number of votes of the apartment owners ( this rule recorded in the housing codified act).
Voting (both in person and in absentia) is carried out according to a procedure strictly defined by law, related to the preparation of a document such as a protocol. Only in this case it is considered valid and will have legal force in the future.
The owner of the apartment, on whose initiative this event is scheduled, must inform other citizens who own the premises about the upcoming event no later than 10 days before it takes place. Within the specified period, a registered letter must be sent to each such participant. In addition, the advertisement can be placed in the premises itself.
It is worth noting that voting in this case is somewhat different from the usual practice that is used in elections of government representatives. Owners of premises may have a different number of votes. The number of such votes in the housing codified act is determined as follows: one vote = one sq. m. premises. That is, in this case, the person who has more votes will have more votes. square meters in the home.
Minutes of the meeting and its features
After the survey is completed, a protocol is drawn up. This official document must contain the following data:
- the date of the event, as well as the place where it took place (it is possible to indicate the exact address);
- form of conduct (full-time, part-time or part-time);
- address of the house, which can be classified as an apartment building;
- the number of apartment owners, as well as the number of votes they have;
- agenda (that is, the topic that will be discussed during such an event, this or that problematic issue);
- results of the survey;
- decisions that were formulated based on these results.
- personal data (full name) of those persons who will take part in the voting process;
- apartment number of the owners;
- the area of each person's home;
- the number of votes each participant has;
- data on title-type documentation for premises in the house.
- personal data (full name) of the participant;
- information about legal documentation;
- wording by vote (for, against, abstained).
When can a decision be considered made?
According to general rule, the minutes of the general meeting can be signed if a majority of votes of citizens-owners of the premises were cast for one or another option. This applies to those issues that do not relate to the peculiarities of managing property of a common house type.
In some cases, the housing codification act requires a qualified majority (two-thirds of all votes). We are talking about the following questions:
- The decision to reconstruct a house, which can be classified as an apartment building, making decisions about the construction of utility buildings, capital repairs.
- The decision to determine the formation method general fund who is in charge of capital repairs, the amount of contributions for capital repairs, minimum size the fund itself and so on.
- Decisions on the limits of use of the land plot on which the dwelling is located, establishing restrictions on the use of such a plot.
- Decisions on the specifics of the use of common property of apartment owners by other persons, concluding agreements for the use of advertising-type structures.
What should you do after the meeting?
At the same time, it is necessary to notify the participants and the owners as a whole about the results of the meeting. If necessary, other persons, for example, government agencies, must be informed.
Note:
decisions of the owners must be kept for three years in archival organizations state power.
Thus, a meeting of such residents is a necessary procedure that should be carried out regularly. It is such an event that is a kind of guarantor of a full and effective management housing. Such meetings can be held both in person and in absentia. Not so long ago appeared and new way, which has found its application and has become popular - part-time and part-time.
Practice shows that it is difficult to gather the required number of participants to conduct in-person voting. That is why in Lately It is much more convenient to use absentee and in-person voting methods.
It is worth noting that the protocol adopted during the voting process has legal force. This is precisely what guarantees the protection of the rights of all participants and residents in general. If any conflicts arise, such a document serves as the main evidence that can be used in court. The entire procedure for making decisions and preparing for the meeting must comply with the requirements of the Housing Codified Act.
Is it possible to hold a residents' meeting? apartment building in absentia? And if so, what requirements for the voting procedure does the law put forward?
- Article 47 Housing Code RF consolidates essential right owners of premises in an apartment building - the right to hold a general meeting of these owners without their joint presence by absentee voting.
At the same time, the legislator does not establish which meeting - initial, regular or extraordinary - can be held in person, and which in the form of absentee voting. It follows from the meaning of the law that the form of absentee voting is applicable to any type of general meeting.
It is more appropriate to hold a general meeting in the form of absentee voting in apartment buildings where there is sufficient a large number of owners of residential premises and collecting them all in a certain place is difficult or impossible.
So, how to properly conduct a meeting in the form of absentee voting?
%0A%D0%B2%20%D1%84%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BC%D0%B5%20%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%BE%D1%87%D0%BD %D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE%20%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BD %D0%B8%D1%8F"> 1. Notice of holding a general meeting in the form of absentee voting
Article 45 of the RF Housing Code obliges the owners of premises in an apartment building to annually hold general meetings of owners and establish the timing and procedure for their holding.
To conduct absentee voting (as well as to conduct an in-person meeting), it is necessary to send each owner of premises in an apartment building a message about absentee voting.
▪ information about the person on whose initiative this meeting is convened;
▪ form of holding this meeting – absentee voting;
▪ date and time of the end of reception of decisions of owners on issues put to vote, the place or address where such decisions should be transferred;
▪ meeting agenda;
▪ the procedure for familiarizing yourself with the information and (or) materials that will be presented at this meeting, as well as the place or address where they can be viewed, contact number initiator of the meeting.
The notice of holding a general meeting in the form of absentee voting differs from the notice of holding a general meeting in person in only one way. Instead of reporting the place and time of the meeting, the place, date and time of the final adoption of decisions by the owners on the issues put to vote are indicated. (subparagraph 3 of paragraph 5 of Article 45, Article 146 of the RF Housing Code).
The procedure for notification of a meeting does not differ from the procedure for notifying premises owners about a meeting in person (Part 4, Article 45, Article 146 of the Housing Code of the Russian Federation).
As a result of violation of the procedure for notifying the owners of the premises of an apartment building about the holding of a general meeting, the decision taken by him can be challenged in judicial procedure and declared invalid.
2. Competence of the general meeting
The general meeting is valid under the same conditions as in person: if it was attended by the owners of premises in a given building or their representatives with more than fifty percent of the votes of the total number of votes of the owners (Article 45 of the RF Housing Code).
3. Absentee voting decisions
Decisions of the general meeting of owners of premises in a residential apartment building are made in the same way as at an in-person meeting of owners of premises in an apartment building.
4. Requirements for the owner’s decision
A general meeting in the form of absentee voting is held by transmitting to the place or address indicated in the notice of the general meeting, decisions of the owners in writing on issues put to vote.
It is advisable for the owners of premises in an apartment building, along with a notice of holding such a meeting indicating the agenda, to send the owner’s decision forms on each issue put to a vote, which the owner fills out in his own hand and signs. If a decision is made for the owner of the premises by a trusted person, a power of attorney must be attached to the decision.
In Part 3 of Art. 47th residential complex of the Russian Federation installed mandatory requirements, presented to the owner's decision. Compliance with these requirements is of great importance, since the contrary may entail invalidation of the decision of the general meeting (Article 46, Part 6 of the RF Housing Code):
▪ the decision must be in writing;
▪ the owner's decision must necessarily contain: information about the person participating in the vote; information about the document confirming the ownership of the person participating in the vote to the premises in the corresponding apartment building; decisions on each issue on the agenda, expressed in terms “for”, “against”, “abstained”. That is, the decision must be formulated in such a way that it does not have a double meaning, excludes any inaccuracy in the formulation, and can be answered unambiguously with one of the given options.
The law establishes that the notice of a meeting of premises owners in the form of absentee voting must indicate the place or address for submitting the decision, as well as indicate a specific deadline by which the premises owners can submit their decisions.
Those who took part in the general meeting of owners in the form of absentee voting are considered to be the owners of premises in a given building whose decisions were received before the closing date for their reception specified in the notice of the general meeting, and the competence of the general meeting is determined by the number of votes expressed in these decisions (Clause 2 of Article 47 of the RF Housing Code). By date we mean day, month, year and time.
5. Voting
6. Summing up the results of absentee voting
To summarize the voting results, a counting commission must be created. Its composition is proposed by the initiators of the general meeting and approved by the general meeting.
When voting on issues put to vote, votes are counted on those issues for which the owner participating in the vote left only one of the votes. possible options voting. Decisions executed in violation of this requirement are considered invalid and votes on them are not counted.
The owner's decision may contain several questions; in this case, failure to comply with the requirement to leave only one answer option for one question does not entail recognition invalid decisions for other questions (Clause 6 of Article 48 of the RF Housing Code).
7. Registration of the decision of the general meeting
The decision of the general meeting is documented in minutes in the manner prescribed when holding a general meeting in person. Minutes, as well as notifications of the general meeting and decisions of the owners, are stored in a place or address that is also determined by the decision of this meeting (Clause 4 of Article 46 of the RF Housing Code). The protocol must indicate the date and place of summarizing the results of absentee voting, the agenda, and the quorum.
Let us note to you, Sergei: despite the harsh form of his statements, in essence the House Manager is absolutely right in everything that concerns the principle of counting votes at a general meeting. You really have a lot to learn here. Practical experience this person undoubtedly has many times more than all of us combined.
And where should the admin look - sorry, it’s not for you to judge. Because if you were to strictly “filter the market”, half of your statements would not be in this topic - there are so many annoying repetitions of the same question, endless stories about your own honesty and the dishonesty of everyone else, as well as inappropriate remarks about self-restraints in family life for the sake of social activities in the MKD.
We are no longer talking about the lack of a sense of proportion, when sometimes at night, unable to stop, you forced the journalist to also stay awake and conduct a fruitless dialogue with you on the topic of how you should count votes in absentee voting.
I didn’t know that you work 24/7 - so from now on I will try to maintain a “sense of proportion” and not disturb you and your journalists at night. Rest easy.
Good health to you.
I read how everything should be and am surprised. It's like I'm living on another planet. In our house, the HOA never received any notifications. People don’t even know what it is, let alone any standard forms. In the best case, 2 people came, asked and left, in the worst case they found out the result when they came for the money, everything has already been decided, hand over the money. I wonder if it is possible if there were voting violations, for example. 2 years ago to appeal, or the train has left. And in the voting protocol it will be written down which person voted exactly how, in order to check the result for lice.
You can look up the minutes of all meetings – both in person and in absentia – and check the legality of their holding. The minutes of the meeting held in the form of absentee voting must be accompanied by the ballots of the voting owners. In the summary statement of voting results, the organizers are required to reflect how each owner voted for each of the issues on the agenda.
You can see what the bulletin and summary sheet look like by downloading the relevant documents from the “Library of the HOA Chairman” (point 16):
Good afternoon An absentee meeting to re-elect the chairman and board was held in the house; there was a quorum. A problem has arisen regarding registration with the tax office; the re-elected chairman does not hand over the registration documents to the HOA. How to solve the problem without going to court?
Re-election of the entire board is a special, rare fact. You must have a justification for the improper performance of duties by all members of the board (materials administrative offenses, inspection reports on complaints from residents, court decisions regarding violation of the rights of owners, etc.). Secondly, the meeting in absentia was to be chaired by the chairman of the board (Part 5 of Article 146 of the RF Housing Code).
Check again the legality of the meeting - and only the court! The court will check the validity of full re-election, compliance with the norms of the Housing Code of the Russian Federation and the Charter of the HOA during the meeting. Everything must be proven in court. You won’t decide anything without a trial, there will be a long confrontation
It’s all bullshit))) Here we have all the local housing and communal services, the most proactive.... The council themselves appoint the chairman themselves, I choose everything ourselves...... Poor things)))))) behind everything there is the signature “Administration”, but the signature of the “Administrator” No. Soon our government itself will be chosen by the people)))))
The question is:
“Conducting the next general meeting of premises owners”
This is a purely internal meeting of Housing Office “A”
or, for example, it can be carried out as luring from Housing Office “A” to Housing Office “B”
I just have the impression that by mistake I was given the wrong “voting” sheet (because the Housing Office listed there is not the one that is currently working with my house)
Of course, it has nothing to do with the general meeting of Housing Offices (in general, Housing Offices do not exist now; this is an outdated term; they have been replaced by private or municipal management companies - management companies). Because, in order to vote on it, the housing office/management company must own part of the area of the house, and it is only a third-party hired organization.
And the housing office can only voice the problems of the house to the owners at a general meeting and offer ways to solve them for a fee. But these actions again must be coordinated with the homeowners.
At the same time, the situation you described is possible - Housing Office No. 2 persuades the owners to hold a meeting and choose it instead of Housing Office No. 1. And if the owners vote for it with a majority of votes, Housing Office No. 1 will most likely have to give way. There's nothing you can do about it, competition.
ok let's call it “UK”
1) The voting sheet was imposed on my workplace
2) I went to that new “UK No. 2” for me, took to read their “Service Agreement” (this should be added, judging from the text of the vote later) and clarified some technical issues.
Rostov-Dom wrote:
“Because in order to vote on it, the housing office/management company must own part of the area of the house”
I also asked them how the house could come under their control... probably the majority of the residents of this house should take part in the vote, which was initiated by them and the decision should be in their favor
But there are different people in the house and they work in different organizations... and how did they technically succeed on someone else’s territory?...
Yes, and “UK No. 1” seems to be alive, and in my opinion it performs its functions well.
Then they suddenly asked for my address and said that this address was not involved in their voting and sent me to my “UK No. 1”
In general, approximately to my “UK No. 1” to the chief lawyer... he called that “UK No. 2”, asked if this was a raider takeover))), warning that this house was under their control. They naturally replied that a mistake had occurred and this house should not participate in the vote.
Two options: Either someone mixed something up or they have some kind of crap in these “UK” “who is who?”
well it's a mistake
In general, raider seizure is the seizure by one person of property belonging to another person.
Management Company No. 2 cannot seize your house from Management Company No. 1, since the house belongs to you, not Management Company No. 1.
Thus, your house can be seized by the forces of Criminal Code No. 2 only from you, and not from a competing organization.
One manager can seize from another manager, for example, special equipment (excavators, trucks), office premises, but not someone else’s private housing.
You can find out what a raider takeover of a house is here:
Just in case, given your interesting history.
Be carefull!
Please tell me how you can control the counting of votes during absentee voting of homeowners. Our Criminal Code openly says that during the voting process, having collected the number of votes they need, they will not conduct an official count. And I would like to take part in the counting of votes, since I have the right as an owner.
Hello, Marina.
The management company has no right at all to participate in the counting of votes at the meeting of owners. She is a guest at your meeting and has no voting rights. This outside organization, hired by you to maintain your home, whose services you can cancel at any time.
The initiator of the absentee meeting, that is, the owner of the property in this apartment building, must count the votes during absentee voting. It is the same counting mechanism that is obliged to count the ballots, monitor the correctness and legality of their completion, and communicate the decisions of the meeting to the owners within ten days after the end of voting.
Also, before the meeting, residents have the right to choose a counting commission from among the owners they trust.
Absolutely right. Only your owner can appeal the decision of your meeting in accordance with the Housing Code of the Russian Federation.
Open an account and wait for the administration to sue, but it won’t.
If the city administration requested the minutes to provide voting ballots and a document confirming the proper notification of the owners about the general meeting, should we provide the requested documents and what document confirms the legality of such a requirement of the administration. Do we have the right to refuse to provide voting ballots? And if we don’t provide it, then what will happen.
Right. The administration is frightening you and is waiting for you to crawl to the REGOPPER.
And REGOPER will repair everything for you in …………..2049.
Good luck to REGOPPER.
I assume that REGOPER will exist for 3 years, then it will be dispersed for excessive corruption and theft. There will be a MILLION complaints from the owners and the cart..
Is it possible for the chairman to fill out the owner’s decision form? MKD council if the owner himself is present, but the owner himself puts the signature on the form?
Please tell me, I’m completely confused with the voting ballots... For the first time I came across the decisions of the apartment owners (two, three, four) in one form. Those. in the owners column all owners of the apartment are listed, then for each question there is an answer in the form of one tick, and in the signature column there are again four signatures. Can such a decision form be declared invalid?
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Thanks a lot for the answer, but in your opinion what specific requirements of the above articles are not met. After all, the decision is in writing (signatures are affixed, the full names of the owners are indicated, data on documents confirming ownership are indicated. But for each question there is one answer, and what if they have the same opinion???
3. The owner’s decision on issues put to vote must indicate:
1) information about the person participating in the vote;
2) information about the document confirming the right of ownership of the person participating in the vote to the premises in the corresponding apartment building;
3) decisions on each issue on the agenda, expressed in terms of “for”, “against” or “abstained”.
Resolution of the Federal Antimonopoly Service of the North-Western District dated 06/07/2011 N A26-4446/2010
The court refused to satisfy the organization’s request for......
solution………
is incompetent, since the voting ballots presented in the case materials do not comply with the requirements of Article 47 of the RF Housing Code.
In favor of voting through written decisions of the subjects is also evidenced by the fact that, based on the provisions of Part 6 of Art. 48 of the RF LC, the will of a subject during voting is considered valid if it allows one to unambiguously determine his will on a specific issue put to a vote.
But if there are few such ballots and they are disputed in court, then the court can call subjects to vote on such decisions and survey them, making a decision in favor of the initiator of the meeting based on the survey.
I want to hold a meeting on an issue current repairs. Where to get the “share distribution scheme” and who to send notification for “non-privatized shares”
There are 5 apartments in the building, two of which are not privatized and belong to the district administration.
1- 30 sq. meters
2-20 sq. m.
3-60
4-50 – area
5-40-district
In total the house has 30+20+60+50+50 = 210 sq. m.
The entire area of the house is taken as a UNIT, and the SHARE of apartments is calculated as follows:
30/210 = 0,14
20/210 = 0,10
60/210 = 0,29,
50/210= 0,24
50/210= 0,24
The notice can be sent to the tenant, or to the head of the district - the owner of apartments No. 4, 5,
Add up the parts and you get UNIT.
The situation is this: in the building (not the HOA), an absentee vote was held, initiated by the city administration, as the owner of a small part of the apartments. Among the questions there was one question that was clearly not beneficial to the residents. This question passed the 50% barrier. The people apparently voted without looking. Is it possible to initiate a second vote on this issue? How to justify what to cling to? And in general, how many times can you vote on the same issue? It doesn't say anywhere in the LCD.
(The question at the vote was that all overexpenditures according to utility standards will be paid by the owners from their own pockets, and not by the management company, as was previously the case)
This is some kind of nonsense.
What does “overspending according to standards” mean?
Utilities are paid either by meter or according to standards.1. If you pay according to the standard, then pay a fixed amount for a conditional fixed volume of consumption of services. And in principle, no one knows how much resource you actually consumed.
2. If you pay by meter, then in this case the payment is made based on consumption. And if you consumed more resources than provided by the standard, then you will have to pay more. And if the agreement with the management company or the decision of the general meeting says the opposite, such a decision will be void and have no force. the federal law more important.
The logic is this:
1. Let's say the law speaks to the right, and the decision of the general meeting or the agreement with the management company - to the left. We'll have to go to the right, the Law is more important.
2. In another situation, the law says: you can go right, but you can go left. And the agreement with the management company (or the decision of the general meeting) states that in this case you need to go only to the left. Then you will have to go left.
If the meter readings exceed the standard value, you will definitely have to pay according to the meter, regardless of the decision of the general meeting and the content of the agreement with the management company. The law is older.
The terminology is letting you down. YOU talk about ONE, calling it overspending. That's all!
You go Rostov-Dom is right.
ODN is calculated in accordance with PPRF No. 354. This is how it is written there for calculating ODN, so do so. And whatever you don’t accept at the meeting contrary to PPRF No. 354, everything will be NULL.
There are restrictions on the payment for ODN; in excess of the consumption norm, ODN pays - the Criminal Code. It’s stupid, of course, but that’s the law.On June 1, government decree No. 344 came into force, which prohibits charging more for general household consumption than required by the standard, and if more water leaks in the house and it is unknown where the electricity disappears, the management company must pay for it. There are two exceptions to this rule. Both they are described in paragraph 44 of the rules.
In order to pay for one-room heating from their own pockets, residents must either make such a decision at a general meeting, or pay for light, water and heat directly with resource suppliers.
SO HAVE A NEW MEETING!!!
Sorry that there were inaccuracies in my wording. And thanks for the quick response!
We were talking about general house expenses that arise in addition to one-time expenses. Those. In our house we have a common building meter (for example, hot water), not all apartments have meters. There is one that we are already paying for. But, there is a difference between the readings of the general building meter and ODN + residents' consumption (according to meters and standards).
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On June 1, government decree No. 344 came into force, which prohibits charging more for general household consumption than required by the standard, and if more water leaks in the house and it is unknown where the electricity disappears, the management company must pay for it.
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It was precisely for paying out of their own pockets for this “who knows where” that our residents voted. The management company justifies the need for such a vote by saying that it will soon go bankrupt, paying this difference for all the houses. But, in this way, their interest disappears, for example, in quickly eliminating leaks or identifying unaccounted-for residents in apartments where there are no meters, etc.In general, the main question was regarding how many times voting can be held on a particular issue, are there any restrictions by law? Or can one endlessly initiate and initiate until the desired result is obtained?
You can hold meetings at least every day, changing the decisions made. If the owners were unable to restore order at one meeting, no one has the right to prohibit them from working on the mistakes.
But what is written in your apartment management agreement? Is this situation discussed there? If yes, then it will be more difficult: you will have to wait until the end of the contract.There is one more nuance.
Please send us a link to this paragraph of Article 354 of the resolution.If it says that the management company clearly cannot take money from you for overexpending a resource that exceeds the standard, and you decided at the meeting that it can, your decision is VOID (see comments above).
Since the resolution of the Government of the Russian Federation is older than your decision.You do not have the right to pay for “overruns” even if you do not re-vote.
Write a notice about this to the management company and, just in case, to the district administration and resource officers. 2) Is the period (number of days) for conducting OSS in absentia regulated?The part of the article that an absentee meeting can be held without any connection to an in-person meeting has lost its force.
The Housing Code currently clearly prescribes the possibility of holding an exclusive meeting in absentia after an in-person meeting in the event that the required quorum of 50% has not been reached.
It's sad, but it's true.In the comments to Art. 162 of the Housing Code of the Russian Federation there is a statement:
“Despite the fact that Part 1 of the commented article establishes that a management agreement is concluded with each owner, it seems that the possibility of concluding one management agreement with all owners cannot be ruled out. In this case, the management agreement will be with a plurality of persons on the owner’s side.”
Who can answer affirmatively:
Is it still possible to empower the Chairman of the House Council to conclude a management agreement with the Management Authority on the terms of the OSS?